Stableminded · · 57 min

USDC, Coinbase, Goldman Sachs & Building a Non-Custodial Exchange

With Vishal Gupta, True Markets

Key takeaways

  • True Markets raised $20 million from investors including PayPal Ventures, the Solana Foundation, RRE Ventures and Accomplice.

  • Vishal Gupta says True Markets trades Bitcoin at 100 basis points, about a third of what top US exchanges charge, with a team of 13.

  • The exchange separates execution from custody and aims to settle to any GENIUS Act-compliant stablecoin across multiple chains.

Watch the episode

0:00Preview: stablecoins, non-custodial exchanges and markets as infrastructure1 of 13

Summary

Vishal Gupta, who grew USDC at Circle and ran exchanges at Coinbase, is building a lean non-custodial exchange that he says should not hold customer assets.

True Markets, a non-custodial crypto exchange, has raised $20 million from investors including PayPal Ventures, the Solana Foundation, RRE Ventures and Accomplice. Co-founder and CEO Vishal Gupta says the company trades Bitcoin and 150 other assets with 13 people, charging 100 basis points for Bitcoin, which he puts at a third of what the top US exchanges charge.

Exchanges that hold nothing

Vishal Gupta says his general thesis is that exchanges probably should not be holding assets. True Markets settles to qualified custodians, with assets such as Bitcoin held in bankruptcy-remote accounts in the customer's name, so that if either the custodian or the exchange blows up, customers are fine. Behind the scenes it uses Turnkey for technical wallets.

Settlement is meant to be stablecoin agnostic: True Markets can speak any GENIUS Act-compliant stablecoin, including PYUSD, Gupta says. It currently supports Solana, Base and Hyper EVM, and aims to be chain agnostic and eventually custodian agnostic.

“An agent doesn't care about your brand marketing or anything else what they care about is like what are your fees what is my access to liquidity... they care that's what agents will start to look for right so you know it doesn't care how your app looks it doesn't care about it worries about the api.”
Vishal Gupta

Built for APIs, not apps

Vishal Gupta argues buyers should not have to pay 300 basis points for Bitcoin, and that the industry assumes 5,000 people are needed to run an exchange. About 10 of True Markets's 13 staff are engineers, and he says one and a half people, helped by AI, are building the matching engine, work that once took dozens.

The first customers are systematic traders. True Markets is giving away $1 million of equity through a liquidity program and offers an API, True Markets Gateway, for building front ends on 150 assets plus Bitcoin. Gupta says agents will pick venues on fees and liquidity: "I don't think we'll have the best app, but we'll have the best APIs."

From Goldman to USDC

Vishal Gupta joined Goldman Sachs's electronic trading desk in 2002 and stayed about 10 years, at one point routing about 10% of options volume through his team's technology. He met co-founder Patrick there.

At Circle, as head of USDC, he grew the stablecoin from zero to half a billion in market cap, though it sat at 200 million for a long time. He says DeFi did not work well until USDC showed up, and that it was the first stablecoin FTX integrated as collateral for perps.

Lessons from Coinbase

As head of exchange at Coinbase, Vishal Gupta ran three exchanges and took spot listings from 20 assets to 235. Merging the USD and USDC order books took about two years, he says. He describes Coinbase and Circle as splitting leftover interest revenue effectively 50-50.

Vishal Gupta wants True Markets to offer markets and liquidity as a service the way AWS offers compute, eventually adding securities and derivatives. His message is that markets will innovate, and that old and new markets each have lessons for the other.

Coinbase, Circle, FTX, and Moneyline come up most.

Ask AI about this conversation

True Markets

Tokenized markets, built for everyone.

More conversations like this one

Get the lineup before every live show, plus the newsletter’s short reads.