Stabledash Live · · 24 min

Crypto Custody, Cold Storage, and What Wallet Security Actually Means

With Thibault de Lachèze-Murel, Dfns

Key takeaways

  • Thibault de Lachèze-Murel says 20% of the 25,000,000 bitcoin in circulation has been lost, not to hackers but to people losing their keys.

  • He says Dfns separates platform access from the security of asset keys and wants customers to use its products without having to trust the company.

  • He warns that cold storage built to satisfy regulators can be less secure than a fully connected system unless integrity is checked end to end.

Watch the episode

Summary

Thibault de Lachèze-Murel argues that crypto's self-custody habits, hardware wallets and cold storage setups often make assets less safe, not more.

Thibault de Lachèze-Murel, Chief Security Officer at Dfns, says 20% of all Bitcoin in circulation has been lost because people lost their keys. Of the 25,000,000 bitcoin in circulation, he says, that share is gone, and with it 'life saving money', with no North Korean hackers or big exploits involved.

The limits of a mantra

Thibault de Lachèze-Murel calls 'not your keys, not your crypto' a nice statement from the cyberpunk era. His problem is with the implementations built to follow it as closely as possible. He also questions hardware wallets: users cannot know whether firmware has malicious access, or whether an upgrade for staking features brings something bad onto the device.

He says large banks and IBM understand what the risk means for billions of dollars of customer assets, and that institutions have been moving away from consumer-style approaches for one year now, or a bit longer.

“I don't want anybody to trust us. I want people of customer and the compliance and the security people and the firm that are using us to be able to use our projects without having to trust us.”
Thibault de Lachèze-Murel

Access is the weak point

Smart contracts do not remove the need for custody, he says. 'It's not because you have components that is secure, that the access to this component is secure.' He also points to AI-written code, citing a $1,800,000 exploit at the lending protocol Moonwell on Base that was traced to a vibe coding error. Code needs a second pair of eyes whether a human or AI wrote it, he says.

How Dfns positions itself

Dfns decouples how users access the platform from the secrets that protect digital asset keys, and customers can run its products on their own infrastructure or on Dfns infrastructure. 'I don't want anybody to trust us,' de Lachèze-Murel says.

Cold storage done wrong

Thibault de Lachèze-Murel says a small HSM on a computer in a desk locker, which anyone can walk up to and use to sign transactions, is 'a very, very unsecure setup.' With a proper integrity check at the end of the process, he says, even a stranger asked to plug a USB key into the HSM could not misuse it.

His advice to institutions is to ask digital asset providers for everything they ask of providers for other assets: disaster recovery, certifications, governance and deployment in their own data center. Being handed one key share to keep on a phone, he says, 'doesn't fit any compliance model.'

IBM, Apple, Moonwell, and Phantom come up most.

Ask AI about this conversation

Dfns

DFNS is the digital asset operating platform for regulated finance — a Core Banking Platform for digital assets. It gives banks, fintechs, and institutions the wallet-as-a-service, key management, transaction and treasury management, tokenization, policy, workflow, and governance infrastructure to run onchain finance at scale. DFNS is pure technology, not a custodian: it never holds client assets, never competes with its clients, and deploys via SaaS, hybrid, or on-prem. It secures $100B+ across 20M+ wallets and 100+ networks, has processed $10B+ in monthly volume for 400+ clients with 99.997% uptime since 2022, zero breaches, and zero key losses, and is SOC 2 Type I & II and ISO 27001/27017/27018 certified, audited by KPMG.

More conversations like this one

Get the lineup before every live show, plus the newsletter’s short reads.